Long Time suspected FAKE baggies scam / seller

Ian_C wrote:I agree with you Frank.  The monetary part sucks, but the bigger issue is what this does for that aspect of the hobby.  Your Lando example is a good one.  The after effects of Toy Toni are still hurting those cards, and no reason to believe this will be any different.

I can't believe there are people even today posting with their support for him. That's depressing.

Ian

Well played Ian!! your reply to Jeff's thread was genius & very well thought out & constructed,this snippet at the end says everything to me -"although there has been a couple of deflections..."

A master of evasion & redirection, got the PC transcript & folks all seem blissfully unaware of just how good he is at that art of deception, a seasoned pro I'd say.

Thanks Frank.

I don't want any accolades for what I posted though. Like you, I just want to see this with a resolution that helps the hobby, and if Jeff is doing what we all suspect, that he doesn't talk his way out of it with long posts that go nowhere.

Ian

What a spectacle. It seems to require a bit more sophistication to identify baggies as the documentation doesn't seem to be quite as definitive on all the variants, atleast for those who don't specialize in bags. Card back variants appear to be more ubiquitous even for collectors not seriously into mocs.

This is true Chris, but then again, the number of baggie experts is miniscule compared to carded experts, plus carded generally appeals to a larger segment of the community. Therefore, you have more people contributing to MOC knowledge, with more people soaking up what is said. Frank is just as knowledgeable as any MOC expert, but he's one guy trying to spread his expertise with only a small few others, with only a fraction of the potential audience paying attention. Using myself as an example, I can help identify repro cards with relative ease, but am pretty clueless on baggies - because I'm part of that crowd that doesn't focus on them.

The information to become a baggie expert is out there, it's just not as widely available from multiple sources.

Ian

@ Chris - you are spot on with your allergy as is Ian,when I first started work on the baggie guide a little over 4 years ago there was pretty much zero documented evidence on non kenner baggies types,it was a total minefield & still is quite the minefield, even the old kenner guide on the US issued baggie is in great need of an update with several classes of baggie needing adding as well as revisions to it, on the old guide there is also a sentence that hugely misinforms collectors stating"baggie heat seals should match top & bottom & be the same" this simple is not the case & actually totally the opposite in reality with 99% of baggies having a different heat seal at the top compared to the bottom,as they were sent to the places where the figures were put in the baggies already sealed one ens, then the figure put in & the other end sealed on a different machine / heat-sealer - a large problem

Agreed 100% about the point that baggie are compared to MOC's a tiny focus field & until recently when they have become more popular /desirable, there were a very tiny number of collectors looking at them in any detail, let along helping to document them,I'd say for every baggie collector you between 1000 & 3000 MOC collectors to give you an idea of the numbers,obviously not that ration is getting less thankfully.

When I started the guide I though about trying to look in to the matching coo's /heat seals /variants & family molds as well as weapon classifications as that is really what is needed to FULLY understand whats what with baggies, but it was only me working on the guide &many hands makes for light work, plus the obvious -

1. not all coo's can be seen with them

2. it's dam near impossible to get a great picture of a heat seal or even tape seal for that matter due to the bags being transparent = the camera really struggles to focus on them & I don't have a grands worth of camera or any photography training which is what is needed

3. I simple do not have the understanding about minor weapons variations /mold variations that is needed to build up & document the whole picture by myself,

Though fingers crossed in time more collectors will get in to this area of vintage collecting that have the will & the drive to choose one of those areas to focus on & be willing to help work on the baggie guide & shed the much needed extra light on the subject, just being doing what I can with what I got to coin a phrase

Fascinating information Frank, especially the details of the heat seal variation. Initially you might wonder why it would be different on two ends but once you think about it from a manufacturing/production perspective it becomes more obvious.

Well if you are ever interested in updating some photography I'd be happy to walk you through some fairly affordable rentals that could help you do a very competent job. I'm sure there are others here who could do it too, for a project like that, rental gear is the way to go lol

Has anyone read the latest installment from Jeff on the below thread ?? the mind boggles

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frunkstar wrote:Has anyone read the latest installment from Jeff on the below thread ?? the mind boggles

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I did see it. Like everyone has said. He's deflecting the questions away from what is being asked.

frunkstar wrote:Has anyone read the latest installment from Jeff on the below thread ?? the mind boggles

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I just saw it Frank, and again have called him out on it.

Waiting for his supporters to jump on me for sticking my nose in it.

Ian

I can't really fathom him having any supporters at this stage of the game ,but you know what they say Ian - nothing queer as folk

On another note,if his ploy is to just baffle everyone with BS,his plan is working

Hey Frank I finally took photos of my three baggies which came from Jeff. Problem is I didn't buy them on ebay and paypal doesn't have the details of the transactions anymore as it was a while ago.

I'm assuming at least the one in the middle is fake?

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Thanks mate
Christian

Far from an expert here Christian, but the lettering on the two on the sides appears to be crisp, which if my recent education on the subject is correct, at least makes them legit bags. Can't speak to them possibly being reseals though...

Ian

Cool thanks Ian!

I have not delved in the ESB-h's yet (work in progress) but I would say the one on the right may well be suspect, would depend on how wide the baggie is in mm's I have one the same from him thats in the suspect box,looks narrow but could just be the photos.

I will grab pic's of my genuine SW-d for you when I get a second, been another right busy day working on the subject today with a fellow baggie nut here helping, he's just left now (3.30pm) & got here at 9 this morning.

Thanks Frank.

Appreciate all the work you guys are throwing into this.

ChristianC wrote:Thanks Frank.

Appreciate all the work you guys are throwing into this.

Also doing work on a new Kenner baggie guide as had enough of it only being doom & gloom, well worth having a little look at,hope it's cool to post a link here, todays new discovery (bar fake shit) was there are also 2 types of ESB-c baggie

Only dealt with the SW era so far on the new guide but am quite pleased with the progress -

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Frank, that looks great so far.
Glad to hear that all the doom & gloom hasn't brought down your love for the the baggies, and your able to continue your great guides.

Another reply has been posted eventually on his response thread, though not really saying a whole lot more than any of the previous ones, figured I better let you guys here know in case you missed it, as this really is dragging on -

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Thanks for the update Frank. It doesn't seem like it's going to end any time soon.

From what I've heard, he is the one who has choosen and picked the baggies from his personal collection who are going to be inspected by UKG ? If that's really the case, I don't see the point of doing this. He will obviously pick the real ones.

You guys maybe interested to check the response to claims thread which has been updated with a detailed grade fail report of all the fake baggies I forwarded to UKG for appraisal.

Jeff was telling everyone at a show a few weeks earlier that several I returned were actually authentic & had passed inspection as legit, the report says otherwise., also a couple of recent email snippets you may find somewhat amusing.

I'll have to check it out.

Thanks again for keeping us updated.

Thanks for the update Frank, will check it out.